Some people mistake the proof mark of two crowns above SUP for ‘superior proof’ to be a steel shot proof mark. If the OP's gun is also Belgian, that helps explain the lack of a makers logo. Inspectors. In the U.S., American made guns tend to be more desirable and more valuable than others, especially from the flintlock era. Generally, but not always, Belgian made guns will have a bit lower value ("ELG" proofmark indicates a Belgian made gun. 1⅛ or whatever. Every 28 years or so (there are inexplicable gaps) they start a new series, by adding a number to the end of the letter co… The Spanish “MP8” is most clearly differentiated from the US marking by the inclusion of the letters and numbers “MP8” within the bomb, and the much larger size of the cartouche. de-lis stamp — the Prince of Wales’ crest. Despite an apparently bewildering variety of brands, it is most likely that there were actually only two Spanish manufacturers of pseudo-Mausers, Unceta y Cia (Unceta and Co., makers of the Astra line), and Beistegui Hermanos (Beistegui Brothers, makers of all the others). The gun is 2.3/4in (70mm) chambered and bears Spanish proof marks. There are two standardized proof house marks. It begins as an idea in the mind of the artist, who then gives it physical shape and form using his innate skill and imagination.If the end product is to be genuine, the process of creation needs to remain uninterrupted from start to finish.. Fjestad. Sample photos of their layouts are at the bottom of the page. As a part of proofing, the new gun is marked with the barrel inner diameter, commonly .729 in 12 gauge. As to the placement of proof house symbols, it depends upon the model of gun, and the level of embellishment, the latter often dictating a discrete location on the under-side of the barrel or frame on highly engraved examples. The majority of marks will be found on the barrel flats, though early guns may have stamps on the tubes, under the forend. in Eibar was one of these as they certainly did not make all the guns that bear their trade mark. Figure 1.25 Spanish proof marks. House Brands. Since approximately 1927, Spanish law has required that every firearm manufactured in Spain be submitted to the Eibar Proof House for testing prior to being released for sale. Where possible the drawings will be presented against a gridded background as shown at right. Mark indicates gauge prior to 1925, a 3-inch chamber, but after that year chamber length had to be indicated in inches. DAKOTA Tradename on single action revolvers of the Colt type made by Hammerli in Switzerland, and by Armi Jager in Italy. BUT----somewhere on the gun should be the letters ELG in an oval. Likely you will also see the ammunition inspection proof mark as well. The table below can be used to see if your gun was proofed in London or Birmingham. Definitive shotguns. Provisional shotguns. Such a gun needs re-proofed. Our selection changes as we buy and sell, so make sure to check our new arrivals page often for the latest and greatest. It is clear that Garate, Anitua y Cia. They weren't too concerned about who made a gun--sometimes it was a joint effort by several small operations---but they were VERY diligent about proof marks! Bores are marked at 18.5mm which is AyA’s standard (but a little tighter than my preference) and equivalent to the old English norm of.729in. The cartouche itself is similar to an acceptance mark often found on US rifle, which is a flaming bomb. The rampant Lion could be Spanish or Austrian. As implied above, with proof date codes, you can get an accurate and reasonably precise date on your Star pistol. Standard steel can go through most nitro-proofed guns, even a side-by-side. European - especially English, French, German, and Italian - guns can also have good value. These Spanish guns were intended mainly for the Chinese market, and the vast majority were immediately shipped there. Semi-smokeless proof for all guns in use since 1904. Inspection of many Traditions and CVA guns made in the last decade of the 20th Century will clearly show the Spanish House of Eibar definitive black powder proof mark. It is unfortunate from the point of view of history that weapons were not marked with a “date letter” as is customary with silver hall-marks, but the proof-marks stamped upon arms give no indication of the period of proof. It is not, and I have seen this mistake made even by experienced members of the gun trade. PROOF MARKS-Comparing the proof marks on your gun to this chart may help you determine where and when your gun was made, including guns where no other markings are evident. H&H style locks are practically universal, as are double underbolts leaving a clean breech face, double triggers and selective ejectors. Figure 1.26 (a) Belgian proof marks - since 1968; (b) Belgian proof marks - before 1968. Applies primarily to guns made outside the U.S. Information courtesy of The Blue Book of Gun Values by S.P. In Belgium the same practice was followed. Proof marks on firearms and portable firing appliances between 03/09/2011 and 20/10/2014 Ammunition control marking between 03/09/2011 and 20/10/2016 BE France Saint-Etienne Most proof marks also tell you the max load, i.e. (19) Out of Proof means any arm bearing invalid proof marks and therefore deemed to be unproved. That speaks volumes about the status that the fine Spanish guns have achieved in the birthplace of the best gun. Entries are listed by initial year of service descending. But these are NOT British proof marks. Figure 1.27 Czechoslovakian proof marks. 1813 - 1855 The London provisional mark was introduced at some point during this proof period but even the Proof House cannot be sure precisely when at … The first is the provisional Gardone proof, consisting of a star sur- Gun Marks. It was made in 2006; since last year, however, all AyAs have been steel-shot proofed and bear the distinctive fleur-de-lis marks. De bossed or panelled marks show the depression in grey, with the original metal surface shown white (or transparent if shown against a grid). Just use this handy translation code list.The Spanish government proof house set up 28 letters or letter-combinations that replace years, starting in 1927. The following information comes from The Book of the Pistol and Revolver by Hugh B. C. Pollard.The Book of the Pistol and Revolver is also available to purchase in print.. WWII German Codes & Markings . GUN MARKINGS. Daly Arms Company Revolver maker in New York City, c.1890. Some Spanish manufacturers not only made guns but also sold guns made by others, and it is difficult to ascertain which guns they actually manufactured. OK, now we are to the meat and the purpose of this post! If the barrel inner diameter goes beyond .010 (example .739) that’s one reason why the gun has gone out of proof. There are a total of [ 82 ] Spain Small Arms List (Current and Former Types) entries in the Military Factory. For corroboration, cross-reference with the proof house controllers' mark. The typical Spanish best gun is a sidelock side-by-side game gun with chopper-lump barrels. Proof is very important. This principle has been the driving force in the making of AYA guns since 1915. Definitive rifles and pistols. So--what is it? In the mid 50's, Spain is considering adopting the CETME rifle. Produced in the Spanish arsenals, there are still some problems with heat treat. Many old guns may have been re-proved once or more, often in a different proof … Eventually scrapped, no records are … The testing includes a detailed visual inspection as well as the firing of one or more overpressure or "proof" cartridges, followed by further visual inspection. Side by Side Double Barrel Shotguns for Sale Our side by side double barrel shotguns for sale include highly collectable models by Aguirre & Aranzabal, Bernardelli Holland Lusso, Francotte, Parker Brothers, and other fine gun makers. The London marks may be accompanied by private makers' marks, those for Birmingham will be unofficial private proof and makers marks. In use from 1868-1925, this mark was used to show a single final proof with loads designed for temporary or provisional proof. Figure 1.28 (a) German proof house marks since marks after 1945; (c) German proof marks 1939-1 marks. Amongst proof marks are codes enabling one to determine the date of manufacture of many guns. A true work of art does not simply appear out of thin air. Please enter the markings you want to research and click the submit button. "Definitive proof" applies to all arms and is effected in the white, or in the finished state. There was no proof house in Eibar before 1927. USA does not require proofing of any firearms. Dakin Gun Company Importers of Italian and Spanish Shotguns, c 1960 in San Francisco, California. Guns destined for the American market bear the same proof-marks, athough the barrels have not been proof-tested or in any way subjected to pressure. The proof certificate is in Spanish, but the dimensions and tolerances are recognisable. Five barrels a month, not completed guns, are claimed as sent to the proof house. The auction gun is Belgian. (20) Proof Load means the load required to develop proof pressure on Liege, Belgium: A single letter, either Roman or Greek, upper or lower case, underlined or not. Unfortunately, the description you’ve given doesn’t match exactly with anything in my book of standard proof marks from that era, or any other.”PV” could be Belgian, Hungarian, Austrian or French. Flag images indicative of country of origin and not necessarily primary operator. U.S. DAKOTA Tradename on revolvers made by Uberti.